Join Andrew Webley as he discusses Smarter Web's new Bitcoin loan, growth strategies, and future plans in this insightful interview on Bitcoin treasuries with Anders.
Timestamp Overview
[00:00:00 - 00:06:35] Introduction and Recent Announcements
- Andrew shares about his recent holiday and how he still worked on business matters.
- He talks about a small fundraising with institutional investors and high-net-worth individuals.
- Andrew introduces “Smarter Convert,” an interest-free loan in Bitcoin that can convert to company shares.
- The loan helps the company avoid risks from Bitcoin’s price changes while adding Bitcoin to their holdings.
- Tobam, a respected investment firm since 2006, is the partner, and they’ve never shorted stocks.
[00:06:35 - 00:11:13] Explaining Smarter Convert Benefits
- Andrew explains why borrowing Bitcoin to buy more Bitcoin makes sense for better returns.
- Investors get a chance for higher gains than just holding Bitcoin by investing in the company.
- The company benefits by raising money with less dilution of shares if it converts to equity.
- There’s no downside for the company, and they might even return slightly less Bitcoin if not converted.
- Andrew highlights transparency by naming Tobam as their first named institutional investor since going public.
[00:11:13 - 00:17:12] Market Position and Competition
- Andrew confirms Tobam won’t short the company’s stock, reducing market risks.
- He discusses the company’s growth in stacking Bitcoin despite market dips.
- Smarter Web is now top in Europe for Bitcoin holdings, just ahead of competitors like Capital B.
- Andrew respects competitors and sees mutual success as good for Bitcoin overall.
- Future plans include reaching much higher Bitcoin holdings before “hyperbitcoinization.”
[00:17:12 - 00:21:16] Future of Bitcoin Companies
- Once companies hold lots of Bitcoin, they could act like banks and earn income from it.
- Andrew sees a “land grab” phase now, followed by companies evolving into future financial giants.
- He believes the company’s value (MNAV) will stay above 1 due to potential income generation.
- In bear markets, low prices could help buy back shares to benefit existing owners.
- Bitcoin’s value is stable; it’s other currencies that change, affecting costs and strategies.
[00:21:16 - 00:26:15] Institutional Interest and Team Growth
- Interest from UK, European, and US investors is growing as the company gets bigger.
- Andrew has a full schedule of meetings and is exploring US opportunities.
- Some US initiatives will be revealed by year’s end.
- Jesse’s addition to the team helps with analysis and operations, allowing Andrew to focus more.
- The team is expanding to about 15 people with top talent for better execution.
[00:26:15 - 00:30:16] Upcoming Events and Business Updates
- Andrew praises his own quick email responses and execution speed.
- He’ll attend a New York Bitcoin conference in September with Jesse.
- The event offers networking and investor meetings.
- Operating business (website design) is growing busier than usual.
- New funding tools like ATM and Smarter Convert give options for different investors.
[00:30:16 - 00:35:31] Market Outlook and Cash Strategy
- Andrew expects markets to pick up after summer, with many events in September.
- He’s excited about Bitcoin’s future and company growth despite current quiet market.
- The company keeps some cash for flexibility, but mostly converts to Bitcoin quickly.
- Cash helps buy more Bitcoin if prices dip, but they avoid holding too much to miss gains.
- Working capital is separate and supported by business income.
[00:35:31 - 00:40:33] Operating Business Growth
- Becoming public has increased visibility, helping attract website clients.
- It takes time for inquiries to turn into sales, but progress is positive.
- They’re hiring a marketing role to boost online efforts like SEO and ads.
- The business offers affordable, custom websites with modular design.
- Tracking tools help focus on what marketing works best.
[00:40:33 - 00:45:16] Fundraising and MNAV Strategy
- Current MNAV at 2.7 means raising money increases Bitcoin per share for owners.
- Andrew avoids discounts when raising funds to protect value.
- Even if prices dip, raising can still benefit if it improves holdings.
- They don’t sell shares on down days to keep things fair.
- Long-term goal is growing Bitcoin per share steadily.
[00:45:16 - 00:50:07] Regulatory Concerns and Government Views
- No regulatory issues for the company; they follow all rules closely.
- Andrew worries about general government mismanagement, like high taxes.
- UK government is more positive on Bitcoin now than before.
- He criticizes potential sale of government-held Bitcoin as a bad move.
- Selling Bitcoin for printable money doesn’t make sense.
[00:50:07 - 00:55:38] Preferred Shares and Listings
- Preferred shares might come when holdings are larger, like competitors.
- It’s a stepping stone after tools like Smarter Convert.
- Could happen in about a year, but not soon due to costs.
- Andrew aims for top UK company status, possibly moving to London Stock Exchange.
- Target: FTSE 100 level with huge market cap growth.
[00:55:38 - 01:02:21] Bear Market Strategy and Targets
- Company targets much higher Bitcoin holdings by year-end.
- Undervalued now, but excited for growth to over 100,000 Bitcoin long-term.
- In bear markets, cheaper Bitcoin makes buying easier, though raising funds harder.
- Debt might be cheaper; operating business covers costs without selling Bitcoin.
- Focus on long-term structure to avoid over-leverage.
[01:02:21 - 01:04:01] Closing Remarks
- Andrew thanks supporters and highlights recent announcements.
- Company is stronger now, with more funding and Bitcoin buys expected.
- Excited for the journey ahead with team execution.
- Believes in delivering value for investors over time.
Notable Quotes
Bitcoin Loan Benefits
It's an interest-free loan denominated in Bitcoin, allowing us to add Bitcoin without fiat risk.
Andrew Webley @asjwebley
Investor Confidence
Naming Tobam as an institutional investor builds confidence and transparency.
Andrew Webley @asjwebley
Competition in Europe
We have tremendous respect for Capital B; their success helps Bitcoin overall.
Andrew Webley @asjwebley
Future Evolution
Bitcoin companies will become the best-capitalized firms, evolving into banks of the future.
Andrew Webley @asjwebley
Team Growth
Jesse is fantastic; I want people better than me on the team.
Andrew Webley @asjwebley
Market Outlook
I'm more excited than ever about the company and Bitcoin sector.
Andrew Webley @asjwebley
Cash Strategy
We keep minimal cash; our philosophy is short the pound, long Bitcoin.
Andrew Webley @asjwebley
Bear Market Approach
In bear markets, focus on structure to grow Bitcoin per share without selling holdings.
Andrew Webley @asjwebley
Government Bitcoin
Selling government Bitcoin is unacceptable; keep it for future generations.
Andrew Webley @asjwebley
Long-Term Goals
We'll be disappointed if not holding multiples more Bitcoin by year-end.
Andrew Webley @asjwebley
Questions & Answers
Question 1: What’s the point of borrowing Bitcoin to buy Bitcoin?
Answer: Andrew Webley explains that investors seek better returns than just holding Bitcoin by investing in a well-managed treasury company, while the company avoids fiat risks and reduces dilution.
Question 2: Any worries about shorting due to the new loan?
Answer: Andrew Webley states that Tobam has never shorted stocks and there’s no incentive here, though minor market shorting is possible but not a concern.
Question 3: How does it feel to be top in Europe for Bitcoin holdings?
Answer: Andrew Webley expresses respect for competitors like Capital B and excitement about pushing to higher levels, seeing it as beneficial for all.
Question 4: What does Jesse’s role allow Andrew to do more of?
Answer: Andrew Webley notes that Jesse handles analysis and operations, freeing him to focus on growth, meetings, and building the team.
Question 5: Is the operating business benefiting from being public?
Answer: Andrew Webley observes increased visibility helping attract clients, though it took longer than expected, with marketing hires to boost it further.
Question 6: How hard is fundraising at current MNAV?
Answer: Andrew Webley indicates that at 2.7 MNAV, raising is still beneficial as it increases Bitcoin per share without discounts.
Question 7: Any worries about regulatory pushback in the UK?
Answer: Andrew Webley has no concerns for the company, as they comply fully, though he critiques broader government policies.
Question 8: Update on preferred stock timeline?
Answer: Andrew Webley suggests it could happen in about a year when larger, as a stepping stone after tools like Smarter Convert.
Question 9: Any news on uplifting to London Stock Exchange?
Answer: Andrew Webley aims for FTSE 100 level but can’t detail the process, focusing on growth to make it feasible.
Question 10: What’s SWC’s bear market strategy?
Answer: Andrew Webley plans to use cheaper Bitcoin for easier buying, rely on operating income, avoid over-leverage, and consider cheaper debt.
People and Organizations Mentioned
- Andrew Webley: CEO of Smarter Web Company, discussing company updates, Bitcoin strategy, and growth; founder who ran the business for 15 years before listing.
- Anders: Host of the interview from Copenhagen, facilitating discussion on Bitcoin treasuries; known as @Anders_ on X, runs “Bitcoin Treasuries World” channel.
- Jesse: New team member at Smarter Web, helping with analysis and operations; praised for skills and potential to lead if needed.
- Tobam: Institutional investor partnering on Smarter Convert loan; French asset manager founded in 2005, known for quantitative strategies and Bitcoin funds, never shorted stocks.
- Yves: Founder and CEO of Tobam, met by Anders in Prague; associated with Bitcoin investments through Tobam.
- Capital B (formerly Blockchain Group): French Bitcoin treasury competitor; holds similar Bitcoin amounts, with Andrew holding shares and respecting their CEO.
- Alex: CEO of Capital B, lunched with Andrew; leads a top European Bitcoin treasury firm.
- UTXO: Pre-IPO supporter of Smarter Web; likely UTXO Management, a Bitcoin-focused investment firm.
- Tyler: Board member from UTXO, supportive since start; possibly Tyler Evans, co-founder of UTXO Management.
- Michael Saylor: Mentioned for MicroStrategy’s cash strategy and publicity benefits; CEO of MicroStrategy, pioneer in Bitcoin treasuries with over 200,000 BTC held.
- Tim Coleman (likely “Tim Con man” typo): Organizer of NYC Bitcoin conference; associated with Bitcoin events, possibly Tim Draper or similar, but context suggests Bitcoin community figure.
- Saylor (Sayla typo): Giving keynote at NYC conference; refers to Michael Saylor, Bitcoin advocate and MicroStrategy CEO.
- Christopher: Viewer asking about borrowing Bitcoin; no further associations, likely a community member.
- Johannes: Danish Bitcoiner asking about regulations; no further associations.
- MetaPlanet: Japanese Bitcoin treasury company mentioned for preferred shares; public firm adopting Bitcoin strategy in 2024, holding around 1,000 BTC.
- Strategy (likely MicroStrategy): US Bitcoin treasury leader; holds billions in BTC, pioneered corporate adoption.