Bitcoin Treasuries podcast hosts discuss journeys in Bitcoin, treasury strategies, and the upcoming NYC Unconference. Insights on community, adoption, and sound money for beginners.
Timestamp Overview
[00:00:00 - 00:05:00] Podcast Introduction and Journey
- Ed Juline welcomes Tim Kotzman to the rebranded Bitcoin Treasuries podcast, formerly Hurdle Rate.
- They reflect on starting the podcast in October of the previous year and how it grew unexpectedly into a media venture.
- Tim shares surprise at the rapid growth, including plans for an Unconference in New York City on September 17th.
- Discussion highlights the supportive Bitcoin community and how people offer help to spread the message.
[00:05:00 - 00:10:00] Podcast Growth and Listener Insights
- Ed praises Tim’s listening skills and the improved quality of episodes over time.
- They joke about listener numbers and family reactions, noting a global audience and viral episodes like one with Phong Le.
- Tim discusses learning about the Bitcoin community’s power through outreach and support for events.
- Ed shares his early Bitcoin experience in 2011, buying at $6 but selling without realizing price spikes.
[00:10:00 - 00:15:00] Ed’s Bitcoin Background and Career Shift
- Ed recounts losing access to Mt. Gox and getting deeper into Bitcoin through communities in Atlanta and Amsterdam.
- He describes shifting from manufacturing to Bitcoin roles, including sales for conferences and layer-two projects.
- Ed explains joining Strategy for conference help, then leaving to partner with Tim on media and events.
- They promote the September 17th Unconference in NYC as an interactive event with thought leaders.
[00:15:00 - 00:20:00] Bitcoin’s Broader Impact and Resistance
- Discussion on how Bitcoin challenges traditional metrics and incentives, like measuring companies in Bitcoin terms.
- Ed compares Bitcoin adoption resistance to historical shifts like germ theory or gravity acceptance.
- They note investors prefer familiar frameworks, but Bitcoin flips everything, creating fear.
- Ed emphasizes Bitcoin as a discovery of sound money, not an invention, leading to long-term resistance.
[00:20:00 - 00:25:00] Mindset Shift and Adoption Challenges
- Ed shares personal change in enjoying saving due to Bitcoin’s fixed supply, contrasting with inflationary money.
- They discuss books like “The Price of Tomorrow” that explain a world without printable money.
- Explanation of why adoption is harder in stable economies like the US versus places with high inflation.
- Tim asks why not everyone adopts Bitcoin; Ed says it’s a new way of viewing wealth and saving.
[00:25:00 - 00:30:00] Orange Pilling and Community Paths
- Ed explains “orange pilling” as self-discovery, often sparked by conferences or personal triggers.
- Stories of friends getting convinced after resistance or events, leading to big investments.
- Recommendation to buy multiple copies of upcoming books like Natalie’s “Bitcoin is for Everyone” for sharing.
- Discussion on diverse Bitcoin fans, like NFL enthusiasts, each finding their own appeal.
[00:30:00 - 00:35:00] Bitcoin Personalities and Events
- Ed describes Bitcoin personality types, like maxis or techies, and links to Myers-Briggs traits common in Bitcoiners.
- They highlight appeal of Bitcoin’s code-based fairness, removing “them vs. us” blame.
- Promotion of events like Camp Nakamoto for Bitcoiners to connect in fun ways.
- Ed notes Bitcoin Treasuries.net as a dashboard for company info, partnering for events and content.
[00:35:00 - 00:40:00] Regulatory Clarity and Communication
- Tim questions if regulation or price rises drive adoption; Ed focuses on reframing as dollar decline, not Bitcoin rise.
- Ed advises against DCA if believing in Bitcoin long-term, as it’s superior to fiat.
- They discuss filtering info on X vs. LinkedIn, depending on professional needs.
- Ed shares strategy of finding hidden Bitcoin supporters in big companies via LinkedIn.
[00:40:00 - 00:45:00] Corporate Adoption and Trickle-Up Effect
- Explanation of internal Bitcoin groups in firms, building support from below to influence leaders.
- Ed notes CEOs like Saylor are rare due to ownership; adoption needs internal waves.
- Companies like Apple or McDonald’s seen as treasury-focused, with Bitcoin as a better asset.
- Sponsored segments on custody and analytics tools for safe Bitcoin holding.
[00:45:00 - 00:50:00] Future Predictions and Mindset
- Tim predicts unlikely companies like Strategy leading big moves; Ed sees gradual but massive shifts like smartphones.
- Discussion on staying updated via X, as Bitcoin evolves quickly.
- Ed reframes “number go up” as dollar decline, using examples like currency hierarchies.
- They highlight presentations showing buying power erosion over time.
[00:50:00 - 00:55:00] Bitcoin’s Long-Term Vision
- Ed struggles to imagine Bitcoin at high prices but knows it’s inevitable due to fiat decline.
- Future impacts on markets like real estate unclear, but thinkers like Jeff Booth explore it.
- Promotion of Bitcoin Treasuries as media, events, and advisory for treasury growth.
- Emphasis on diverse attendees at conferences, leveling social hierarchies.
[00:55:00 - 00:58:00] Closing and Recommendations
- Ed recommends Fountain app for podcasts to better support creators.
- Final push for NYC Unconference tickets, promising unique in-person experience.
- Jokes about inviting celebrities like Ryan from GameStop for Bitcoin talks.
- Thanks to Tim for building the podcast and excitement for future episodes.
Notable Quotes
Bitcoin Community Power
I've learned the power of the bitcoin community... the amount of people that have just reached out and said, how can I help?
Tim Kotzman @TimKotzman
Podcast Listening Skills
The thing that I think you really bring to the space... is your just listening skills. You sit there and listen.
Ed Juline @ejuline
Bitcoin as Discovery
Don't let anyone ever tell you that bitcoin's an invention. It was discovered. Sound money was discovered.
Ed Juline @ejuline
Mindset Shift on Saving
Something that's happened to me in the last year personally is that I realized I really enjoy saving now.
Ed Juline @ejuline
Orange Pilling Strategy
That's my new strategy now. When somebody's like, hey, tell me about this bitcoin thing. I look at them, I'm like, nah, you won't get it.
Ed Juline @ejuline
Bitcoin Personalities
There's a maxi, there's a hodler, there's a techie, there's a degenerate... everybody's got their own personality.
Ed Juline @ejuline
Number Go Up Reframe
There is no number go up in bitcoin. If you have five bitcoin, you have five bitcoin, end of story.
Ed Juline @ejuline
Corporate Trickle-Up
Find those people below so that it trickles up and you've got this wave of support underneath.
Ed Juline @ejuline
Future of Bitcoin
It's so hard to imagine that we've come on to something that we know is going to happen. A truth.
Ed Juline @ejuline
Podcast Growth
You've been able to really open up the bitcoin treasury space to tens of thousands of listeners.
Ed Juline @ejuline
Questions & Answers
Question 1: What have you learned from interviewing people in the Bitcoin treasury space?
Answer: Tim Kotzman learned about the strong power of the Bitcoin community, where many people offer help to spread the message forward, showing how the group rallies around ideas.
Question 2: Why is Bitcoin adoption challenging for some people?
Answer: Ed Juline explains that Bitcoin requires a whole new way of looking at money and wealth, making saving enjoyable, but it’s harder in stable economies where inflation feels less urgent.
Question 3: How do you orange pill someone about Bitcoin?
Answer: Ed Juline believes people orange pill themselves through sparks like conferences or personal research, as forcing it often fails, but resistance can lead to self-discovery.
Question 4: What personality types are common among Bitcoiners?
Answer: Ed Juline describes types like maxis, hodlers, techies, and degens, noting many have Myers-Briggs traits like NT (introverted and analytical), which appeal to code-based fairness.
Question 5: Is number go up the best way to market Bitcoin?
Answer: Ed Juline argues against it, reframing as the dollar going down, since Bitcoin’s supply is fixed, and people need to see fiat’s melting value to understand.
Question 6: How can big companies adopt Bitcoin?
Answer: Ed Juline suggests finding internal supporters to build a trickle-up wave, as CEOs face career risks, but hidden Bitcoin fans can influence from below.
Question 7: Where is Bitcoin Treasuries heading?
Answer: Ed Juline and Tim Kotzman see it growing into media, events, and advisory services to help treasury companies, service providers, and investors avoid pitfalls.
People and Organizations Mentioned
- Ed Juline: Co-host and interviewee sharing his Bitcoin journey from early adoption in 2011 to roles in conferences and treasury; associated with Bitcoin Conference, MARA, and Strategy as a suitcoiner advocating for corporate Bitcoin.
- Tim Kotzman: Podcast host discussing his media empire growth; founder of Bitcoin Treasuries podcast and NYC Unconference, known for interviews in the treasury space.
- Phong Le: Mentioned as CEO of Strategy, interviewed by Tim with over a million views; likely Phong Le, associated with Bitcoin treasury strategies at Strategy.
- Michael Saylor: Referenced for Bitcoin advocacy and potential yacht interview; co-founder and executive chairman of Strategy, a major Bitcoin treasury holder.
- Jeff Booth: Noted for listening to podcasts at high speed and book “The Price of Tomorrow”; Canadian entrepreneur and author on Bitcoin’s deflationary economics.
- Vitalik Buterin: Seen at Amsterdam meetup; co-founder of Ethereum, key figure in crypto despite Bitcoin focus.
- Craig Wright: Claimed Satoshi at meetup; controversial figure self-proclaimed as Bitcoin inventor, involved in legal battles.
- Pete Rizzo: To speak at NYC Unconference on metrics; editor-at-large at Bitcoin Magazine, prominent Bitcoin journalist.
- Jeff Walton: To discuss KPIs at NYC Unconference; Co-founder of True North and VP of Bitcoin Strategy at Strive.
- Fred Kruger: Organized Santa Monica event inspiring NYC Unconference; tech investor and Bitcoin event organizer.
- Malcolm Gladwell: Mentioned for podcast company; bestselling author and podcaster known for “Revisionist History.”
- Natalie Brunell: Upcoming book “Bitcoin is for Everyone” and founder of Coin Stories.
- Alex Gladstein: Path in human rights; CSO at Human Rights Foundation, promotes Bitcoin for freedom.
- CK (likely CK Snarks): Human rights focus; podcaster and Bitcoin advocate at Bitcoin Magazine.
- Saifedean Ammous: Book implied; author of “The Bitcoin Standard,” economist on sound money.
- Vijay Boyapati: Interviewed on book “The Bullish Case for Bitcoin”; author and Bitcoin proponent.
- Joel Bomgar: Presentations on numerator/denominator; founder of Bomgar (now BeyondTrust), Bitcoin treasury advocate.
- Robert Breedlove: Possible in orange pilling; podcaster and author on Bitcoin philosophy.
- Jack Mallers: Met Bukele; CEO of Strike, Bitcoin payment app developer.
- Larry Fink: Influenced for BlackRock ETF; CEO of BlackRock, major player in Bitcoin ETFs.
- Robby Mitchnick: Got Fink’s ear; head of digital assets at BlackRock.
- Ryan Cohen: Invited from GameStop; CEO of GameStop, known for meme stock and potential Bitcoin interest.
- Strategy: Bitcoin treasury leader; public company with largest corporate Bitcoin holdings, led by Saylor.
- MARA: Sidechain project Enduro; mining and energy firm focused on Bitcoin infrastructure.
- OnRamp: Sponsor for custody; Bitcoin financial services provider emphasizing secure multisig.
- Stamp Seed: Sponsor for seed storage; hardware for secure Bitcoin seed phrase backup.
- Strategy Tracker: Analytics sponsor; tool for tracking corporate Bitcoin strategies.
- Arch Lending: Crypto loans sponsor; provides loans backed by digital assets.
- Bitcoin Conference: Ed’s past role; major annual Bitcoin event, often in Miami or Vegas.
- PubKey: Side event venue; Bitcoin bar and hub in NYC.
- Swan: Myers-Briggs researcher; Bitcoin financial services company.
- GameStop: Potential speaker; retail company with meme stock fame, speculated Bitcoin treasury interest.
- Apple: T-bill company example; tech giant with large cash reserves.
- McDonald’s: Real estate example; fast-food chain owning vast property.
- Nvidia: Measured in Bitcoin; semiconductor leader, AI boom stock.
- BlackRock: ETF reference; world’s largest asset manager, issuer of Bitcoin ETF.
- Fidelity: Enterprise hesitation; investment firm with Bitcoin services but cautious.
- Red Bull: Called Bitcoin toxic; energy drink company sponsoring extreme sports.
- Mt. Gox: Early exchange failure; defunct Bitcoin exchange hacked in 2014, leading to bankruptcy.
- xAI: Not directly mentioned but in guidelines; AI company by Elon Musk, builder of Grok.